¿Dónde puedo comprar los anillos de las valvulas?

Hola
Sabe alguien donde puedo comprar en España los anillos de las valvulas?
Perdonar pero no se como se llaman.
Un saludo.

Buenas: estos tienen unos cuantos, yo les compré alguna válvula y son rápidos y fiables
http://thetubestore.com/tuberings.html

Muy buenas JL

Estabas al loro ehh??

Pero me gustaria que fuese en España y a ser posible en Madrid. Por los gastos de envio.

Un abrazo.

Ahí estamos, pregunta a los de Clave Audio que venden cosas de Sarte y con ellos Audio Research. Seguro tienen algo o te lo consiguen. ¿que estarás planeando?
Saludos y feliz 2011
Juan Luis

Hola

Yo tambien andube sopesando ponerle algun tipo de anillo a mis valvulas y finalmente me decante por estas
http://www.partsconnexion.com/product4.html



Aun no me han llegado, pero por lo que he indagado este tipo aparte de eliminar ciertas vibraciones y reducir la temperatura, proteje la valvula de interferencias electromagneticas lo cual lo considero mas importante, eso si esteticamente no son muy agraciadas.

Las he pedido para las de previo, que son las mas expuestas a las interferencias.

Cuando me lleguen ya veremos si son efectivas o no.

Saludos

http://www.concertoaudio.com/570/67/22/EATCOOLDAMPERS.html
Otra posibilidad.
Felices fiestas.

Muchas gracias por vuestra respuesta.

Ya contarás MAFREGA...

Hola,
Estos chismes se llaman en inglés "tube dampers" que se podría traducir como atenuador de vibraciones para válvulas. Eso suele evitar microfonias

Si no estoy equivocado el mejor precio para Golden Dragon/Duende Criatura + 8€ portes
http://www.tube-shop.com/euro/store/accs/product.asp?CatIDTubeAccs=YES&Category=Tube%20Rings

En este link holandes tienes los Duende Criatura y los EAT(sólo para válvulas de previo) un poco más caros y portes 14€. Si el pedido es de más de 240€ los portes son gratuitos.
http://www.tweaks4u.com/index.php?cPath=28&language=EN&sort=3a&page=1&language=EN

Los de EAT también se pueden adquirir en SUpersonido. Los EAT además de atenuar las vibraciones tienen una ventaja repecto a las anillos habituales, son disipadores de calor y es probable que eso ayude a prolongar más, la vida de la válvula.
http://www.supersonido.es/cas/site/productos-ficha.asp?id=5280

Los dampers de Herbie's Audio Lab también están disponibles para todos los formatos de vàlvula como los Duende Criatura, pero con el transporte (más caro) + aranceles aduaneros.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm

Saludos

Por curiosidad, ¿para que sirven?.

Saludos

Jose

ppcomo escribió:Por curiosidad, ¿para que sirven?.

Saludos

Jose

Con un maravilloso previo pasivo como el de tu avatar, para nada te sirven los dampers, por supuesto. Por cierto no pensaràs ponerlo a la venta?

Aquí tienes unas anotaciones de un proveedor holandés (jac music) que cuelga en la web sus propias experiencias. ¿Sabías que los cazas Rusos MIG en los 80 llevavan (no sé si todavía están operativos)válvulas termoionicas porque con las explosiones nucleares se destruyen los semiconductores en un radio de 100 o más kms? Siempre se aprenden cosas (almenos yo que soy neófito). También te explica al final de todo en unas notas cómo comprobar los ruidos resonantes típicos de la amplificación a válvulas jugando con cambios muy rápidos de cd o fuente (a toda la caña posible) a una entrada auxiliar sin señal. Como puedes leer, existen 2 fuentes de microfonía, las que recoge la propia válvula a través del cristal y la que le llega a través del chasis del ampli via los pines, todo ello se convierte en ruido (ringing noise) al afectar la rejilla. Jac music propone utilizar anillos de teflon (tipo Duende) par evitar el primer mecanismo y zócalos de teflon tipo Yamamoto para evitar el segundo.
Saludos

DUENDE CRIATURA TUBE RINGS
Last modified 01/22/2009 15:22:54

the problem - the solution

The principle is simple. We all know tubes are microphonic in some way. Microphonics means acoustic coupling excists to the sensitive inside parts of the tube. There are two mechanical paths for that:

1) Direct path: Loudspeakers -> air -> tube glass -> tube mica ->tube plates -> tube grid. And...tube grids are very microphonic, because here is where the signal amplification takes place. The idea with tube dampers is, when you make the tube glass heavier, and also add some damping to it, you'll reduce the microphonic effects. The damping comes from the softness of the Teflon. It seems ideal audio material.

2) Indirect path: Loudspeakers -> air -> amplifier deck -> tube sockets -> tube pins -> tube grid. This type of microphony is best stopped by using the Yamamoto Telfon sockets. So you avoid the mechanical waves to enter the glass. Without Teflon sockets, some good part is still absorbed by tube dampers also. (for Yamamoto, see menu of this website).

A problem may also come from mechanical transformer hum, guided through the chassis. Both Teflon sockets, and tube dampers will help against this.


The construction

The tube dampers are CNC made, in Holland by Duende Criatura. They are made from a solid block of Teflon, with a working temperature of maximum 260°C. This material has no burning effects at all. Teflon is a self-cleaning material, and no dust or colorization will stick to it. They have a spring around them of Titanium, which is a so called "hard metal" and it is surprizingly flexible.

Tests

I have measured the decay time of the "ring sound" of the Electro Harmonics EL34, when you gently touch the glass with something like a small piece of metal. (see also note3). From the speakers you here: "dinnnng...." It takes around 2 seconds, for 2/3 of the ring noise to be fully gone. The spectrum contains a lot of higher frequencies in the range of 10kHz. When the tube dampers were added to the EL34 tube, the improvement consisted of three things:

The excitation of the tube was smaller. That means the "ring sound" is 50% smaller to begin with.
The decay time was reduced by 60%, giving a decay time of less than 1second. So the "ringing sound" was gone faster
The higher frequencies of the "ring noise" were strongest damped.




Ring
Number Glass diameter
(mm) Glass diameter
(Inch) Tubes like:
1 9 ... 10 0.35 ... 0.39 6021W, 6111WA etc
2 17,5 ... 18 0.69 ... 0.71 6AU6 etc (7 pin)
3 19,5 ... 22 0.77 ... 0.87 ECC83, EL84, EF86
4 26 ... 29 10.2 ...1.14 6SN7
5 27,5 ... 32 1.08 ...1.26 EL34, 5AR4
6 32 ... 36 1.26 ... 1.42 EL34-big glass, 6L6-small glass
7 36 ... 39 1.42 ... 1.53 6080, KT90, 6L6GC
8 39 ... 42 1.53 ... 1.65 2A3, 45
9 44 .. .48 1.73 ... 1.89 6550
any EML tube
11 53 ... 58 2.09 ... 2.28 211, 845
12 63 ... 68 2.68 ... 2.36 Some types 300B




.
Positioning the tube dampers
There is often the concern that tubes get overheated from tube rings. In a way that is true, when you think of bad design constructions that fully cover the tubes. The Duende Criatura is small and relatively heavy, and covers only a small surface at the top of the tube. Interesting, this is the part where the getter is, and it is supposed to be hot, to make the getters work better. (See also note 4)

Some other brand tube dampers are placed on the middle of the tube. This is the wrong position, since they obstruct the heat radiation, and can cause severe bias offset of the tube when the grid coolers are covered by them. (See note1) The tubes will be burned out sooner than you expected. You can put these in the Voodoo corner together with non-working medicine, and other magic. I found those covering types are just bad for the tubes. Take the Duende Criatura instead!

What you see here is one of the "pencil tubes" 6021W, a low noise / small signal tube for high vibration environment. It was made during the cold war in the 1980's. Nuclear explosions destroy all semiconductor electronics in a wide area, like 100km or more. This is why Russian MIG air fighter planes worked entirely on electron tubes. When a nuclear explosion occurs, electron tubes stop working too, but they recover function after the electromagnetic impulse (EMP) is gone. All in theory..... thank God it was never tested. The good part is, there are some stocks of these tubes that the military have started to sell somewhere around 1997. Another typical NOS tube story we have here going on right now. These are PEARLS, sold for low prices until supplies dry up.

This is one of those tubes, the 6021W, with extreme low microphonic effects, made for small signals. Tubes like this have the lowest microphonic effect you can get for tubes. For phono pre-amps you can even further improve the performance of those, with one or two Duende Rings.

Interesting to know is, that the Duende company originally build those rings for this tube at first, for their own use.

This tube, and the Teflon tube socket you see here, we also have in our program

Burning in tube dampers?

Everybody talks abut burning-in, even when things don't get hot. I think there is a lot of personal belief in that, with articles like a 900$ mains connector, of the types that you get send in a rosewood box with gold-plated letters on it. However as soon as you have mechanical components which are meant to be used very hot, there is in many cases the burn in (or run in) effect. So with the DUENDE tube dampers. The maker of the Duende rings, pointed this out to me. The surface of the Teflon, where it is touching the tube glass, will slowly but fully adapt to the shape of the tube after some days or weeks. This will go faster when the tubes are switched "on" of course. So yes, it's a real burn in effect.






Experiences / Testberichte
Augusto Sá Monteiro -Spain
the order arrived this morning in perfect conditions, as always. I immediately tested the “Duende Criatura” tube rings and just like a miracle the microphony almost disappeared. Also the sound performance of the TFK RE-084 improved in all aspects. Therefore I feel encouraged to ask you 4 more tube rings for the phono valves (2 ECC83 + 2 ECC82). I suppose the reference is the number3 , you will confirm it. Please send me as soon as possible the invoice in order to include it in the pipeline order, this also to the same address. Once again thank you very much.

Martino Sanchez Ruiz - Spain
I have received your consingment. All in perfect state. The tube rings are very good, more transparency, warm and cleaner soundstage. Better and faster microdynamics. Best Regards, Martino.


http://www.octave.de/forum/messages/1229.html
Die Basskontrolle hat zumindest im Oberbassbereich zugenommen (ich betreibe 2 1/2-Wege-LS, also unterschiedlich angesteuerte Bass-Chassis). So weit, so erwartungskonform. Was mich wirklich ueberrascht hat: Die Leisespiel-Qualitaet hat scheinbar deutlich zugenommen. Insgesamt wuerde ich den Fortschritt durch Upgrade quantitativ aber in etwa auch bzgl. der konkreten 'Einzeldisziplinen' mit dem durch die BlackBox (die auch auch habe) vergleichen.


http://www.audioboard.com.hk/abforums/abmarket/posts/1790.html
Then I tried the rings for the ECC82s in the power amp. This was ASTOUNDING!!The bass immediately became more tuneful and everything became much better integrated. In simple terms, it all became more real.........Now I want to order some more rings, please. Duende Criatura Tube Rings reduce microphony, distortion and feedback from audio tubes.

http://www.hifi.nl/nieuws.php?keuze=36037
Duende Criatura De dempende buizenringen verminderenbeduidend microfonie,vervorming en oscillatie van buizen. Ze worden om het bovenste deel van de buis geklemd. De gevolgen hiervan zijn verbetering van ruimtelijk geluidsbeeld, dynamiek en bascontrole.


.




Technical notes
Note 1. Grid coolers are the two fins you see at the top of power tubes. So smaller tubes don't have those. They are mounted on the grid bars, and their function is to avoid the grid from getting overheated. If the grid gets too hot, grid emission will start, and the tube will bias wrong, and consequently will burn from it.
Note2. Microphony is not the right word, for what is physically happening here, but it will come down to the same result: Noise. The physical explanation is, the tube glass and the whole inside must be regarded a damped mass-spring system. This system is excited by any mechanical force, and the result will be the typcial inner frequencies of this system appear. The tubes will generate this noise by themself when they are excited., for instance by gently ticking on the glass with a metal piece. So, you do not only hear the "tick" noise, but additionally some ringing noise. Also the sound waves in the hearing room will excite the tubes, and this will appear in the output signal as the same ringing noise. With tube dampers, the mass spring system is given more mass, and more damping. Both will reduce the the movements it will make, by the same excitation.
Note3. A good test to check if your tubes are sensitive to this problem, is the following: Put on a very loud CD, and play it as loud as your system can do. Now choose a source where there is no signal, like "Aux". (unplug the Aux cable if necessairy). So now you hear no sound. When you would go back to "CD" the very loud sound appears again. This is the set up you need. Now, to excite the system you must, as short as you can do, switch from "Aux" to CD, and immediately to "Aux" again. So you just "touch" the loud CD signal as short as possible. This will most likely produce the not very famous "ring" noise, caused by the tube amplifiers.
Note4. Getter temperature plays an important role to keep the vacuum clean. The getter is applied at the hottest position of the tubes. This makes the getter function best. They need minimum 60°C to function well. For optical reasons, sometimes it is put in the bottem, but this is not the best place.

Joder, pues me alegra saber que mi equipo seguirá funcionando tras una explosión nuclear.

Saludos

Jose

Hola retomo este viejo hilo

Estoy pensando en comprar estos anillos de esta marca Herbie's Audio Lab.

alguien me puede comentar alguna cosa ?
Gracias.

ctijero escribió:Hola retomo este viejo hilo

Estoy pensando en comprar estos anillos de esta marca Herbie's Audio Lab.

alguien me puede comentar alguna cosa ?
Gracias.

Yo he tenido los EAT y los originales de Audio Research (previo LS25MKII) , y para mi oido y en mi sistema los Herbie's Audio funcionan mejor, en terminos de menor distorsión en picos de señal, mayor nitidez de graves, mejor equilibrio dinámico. A mi parecer, la magnitud del cambio es modesta pero perceptible (al menos en mi sistema) y ya aviso a los quisquillosos, que son comentarios completamente subjectivos   , sin pruebas a doble ciego con enmascaramiento + dispositivo ABX etcétera. Los de Herbie`s han hecho su propia comparativa (exaustiva, por cierto) con todos los tube-dampers del mercado (al menos los más conocidos) y la argumenta, a veces con datos ténicos y a veces sólo con pruebas auditivas. Creo que es una comparativa bastante honesta, e incluso reconoce que algunos productos los igualan. Te la adjunto porque según como la busques no es fácil de encontrar. Espero que te sea de utilidad  
Saludos
Leo

Q: What's the advantage of Herbie's dampers over other kinds of tube dampers?
A. Here are some observations we've made:
Duende Criatura Tube Rings: Although these European rings are great at bringing out a sense of detail and clarity, they don't fully reveal the deeper "texture" of each note, and lower/mid frequencies seem a bit thin at times. To keep tubes from overheating, they should be placed near the top of the tubes where they are sometimes least effective. Though sonically competitive with Herbie's original PTFE HAL-O tube dampers, these tube rings lack the punch, microdynamic speed, and nuance of Herbie's newer damping instruments. They're not bad dampers overall though, delivering an overall pleasant result.
Pearl Tube Coolers: These heat sinks are designed to keep tubes a little cooler, potentially extending tube life. Without ample ventilation though, they cause tubes to run hotter! Then again, with ample ventilation, there's no need for coolers, because natural airflow convection does the job. At controlling microphonics, they are marginally effective when new. Rubbery O-rings holding the heat sink against the tube gradually become brittle from the heat though, resulting in gradually increasing, uncomfortable distortion. Audio vacuum tubes are designed to operate within an elevated temperature range (that's why all have internal heaters); artificially lowering a tube's operating temperature would achieve no sonic benefit and could be audibly detrimental.
Tube Anchors/Brass Rings: Though awkward to work with, Tube Anchors by MapleShade are excellent sonically, the only dampers we have tested that play in the same league as our damping instruments. Massive brass clamped around a tube, however, deprives the glass bulb of air ventilation needed for cooling. Our tests with brass Tube Anchors resulted in fairly cool-running input/driver tubes running an average of 33.8º F hotter than without Anchors. Other manufacturers make brass or copper sleeves and deceptively imply that they are tube "coolers." They are not.
Absorb-Gel (Allnic): These are extension sockets with a gel material inside. We have found that damping tube sockets can sometimes be effective at reducing microphonics, but damping the bulb glass is much more effective and the results more consistent amongst various tubes and components. Damping the socket and tube both can be mutually effective; placing a ring of Permatex Blue Silicone Gasket Maker (available at auto parts stores) around tube sockets dampens them quite effectively, without the drawback of having an additional set of pins/sockets for each tube, keeping a more direct electronic signal intact. (Because Allnic Absorb-Gel Dampers damp vibrations under the tube pins, the benefits are minimal compared to damping the socket directly contacting the tube pins.) In almost all cases though, Herbie's damping instruments provide optimal results without having to worry about damping the sockets.
Cool Damper by EAT (Euro Audio Team): Herbie's Audio Lab has tested this fine-looking tube damper and found it to be a bust. These dampers reduce tube microphonics, but the sonic result is poor. Lower midrange frequencies are bland; acute dynamics tend to be "rounded" without energetic attack and decay; high frequencies are well-represented, but lack many of the intangibles that give a sense of live performance. As coolers, they fare even worse. Although the damper appears to be designed as a heat sink, the thermally conductive interface between the glass bulb and aluminum fins is woefully inadequate for the device to function as such.
(test results)
Tube Sox: These are woven tubes made of fiberglass-like Kevlar that slip over your vacuum tubes, reducing microphonics somewhat effectively with minimal attenuation of some higher frequencies and some loss of inner detail. They become stiff with age, due to UV radiation and heat, losing their flexibility and damping ability. No-brainer verdict: not a good product.
Neoprene and nitrile O-rings help microphonics a little, but after a while these materials get brittle from tube heat and the rings become ineffective. Their relatively high durometer (hardness) limits their ability to absorb subtle vibration in the first place. After all, like other O-rings, they're made to be used as seals, not as vacuum tube dampers.
PTFE-coated silicone O-rings fare better. These industrial seals, available from McMaster-Carr and other hardware suppliers, tend to improve the sound of tubes suffering particularly from microphonics or tube rattle, adding only a slight frequency coloration. Some users have reported satisfactory results with these. With some tubes, however, they induce a bloopy, muddied bass and/or high-frequency loss and/or upper-mid harshness. Because PTFE softens and elongates with higher temperature, results can be unpredictable when in direct contact with the radiant heat of tube glass.
Elastomer O-rings: Such as silicone, 3M and Audio Research tube dampers. Silicone o-rings can work pretty well at reducing vibrations, but some users have reported noticeable muddiness, loss of midrange information, and/or "peaking" at certain bass frequencies. Elastomer rings can fuse to power tubes or eventually crack and wear out. O-Rings placed around tubes have no place to disperse vibrations; by contrast, all Herbie's dampers feature isolation pads to absorb and disperse vibrations into their surrounding "C" ring.
Caution: silicone O-rings like those sold on ebay as "tube dampers" do not hold up to some hot-running power and rectifier tubes for the long haul -- "Aerospace High-Temperature Silicone" handles ambient temperatures up to 450° F for a good while, but continuous radiant heat from output and rectifier tubes (which generally run about 480° F) will gradually plasticize the silicone and render it useless. They are inexpensive enough to replace every once in a while though, and often provide satisfactory relief for guitar amp tube rattle issues. These O-rings hold up very well with cooler, small-signal preamp tubes.
Sorbothane: Sorbothane is heat resistant only to 200° F. (93.5° C), after which the material melts. According to Sorbothane's website data, the material begins losing its vibration-absorbing ability after reaching a temperature of only 160° F. With cool-running tubes that it can be used with, Sorbothane tends to cause "bloopy" bass and attenuate the higher frequencies. (Herbie's Audio Lab highly recommends that Sorbothane be used absolutely nowhere in an audio system. This material will often achieve a localized sonic tradeoff that seems beneficial, but literally contaminates the sonic integrity of the system as a whole.)
Shun Mook resonators: These are small African blackwood (Mpingo) discs placed on the top of tubes. Unlike Gabon ebony, which smooths out acute microphonics, Mpingo (not an ebony, it's of the rosewood family), produces a vibrant resonance that can enhance a recording's sense of vitality. Subtle effect can be system dependent and subject to personal taste/preference. At Herbie's Audio Lab, we believe that reducing microphonic distortion to unveil the energy and spirit of the original recording session is a more honest, and ultimately more effective, approach.
DIY: Here are a few do-it-yourself alternatives:
Wire twist ties wrapped with PTFE tape (the kind of tape used to wrap pipe threads). This "damper" can achieve a worthwhile, though minimal improvement. Many tweakers use PTFE tape alone, without wire, just wrapping tape around the tube. Although this microphonics remedy doesn't bring out the highest potential in your tube gear, results generally are acceptable for the price involved and will rarely do any harm sonically.
Automotive heater hose or PTFE shrink wrap surrounding tubes. Sometimes improves the quality of badly microphonic tubes, but insulates the tubes, causing them to run hotter than they should. Can make excellent-sounding tubes sound worse. Oftentimes causes "bloopy" or choppy bass, weird highs.
Mortite: Rope caulk is a great vibration-absorbing material for use with internal component chassis, loudspeaker baskets and many other applications (and highly recommended by Herbie's Audio Lab). Not advised for vacuum tubes, however. Mortite and other brands of rope caulk have a high temperature range of only 150°F (66°C). The material might hold up to the heat of small-signal tubes for an audition or two (which will probably yield good sonic results), but before long, Mortite will turn foamy, smoke and burn, partially vaporize and melt into a pathetic mess (similarly, Blu-Tak has very poor high-temperature range and will melt readily on vacuum tubes).
Babbitt putty, a high-temperature material (978°F) with some qualities similar to Mortite, can be used effectively on vacuum tubes and yields excellent sonic results, but exudes an offensive odor.
Oil-filled bottle. Effective? perhaps. Practical to use? perhaps not.
Herbie's Tube Dampers:
UltraSonic SS, originally introduced as a lower-cost alternative to UltraSonic Rx for small-signal tubes, UltraSonic SS has incrementally improved to where it now equals Rx in sonic quality. Delivers a pure and unblemished audio result.
UltraSonic Rx: The sonic result with a highly resolving audio system can be uncanny. It's the closest we've experienced to being in a recording studio monitoring an actual performance "live" or being in the presence of a live event.
Guitar Amp UltraSonic, designed to minimize microphonics, oscillation, and tube rattle in severe vibrational environments as found in a combo guitar amp. Works superbly with home audio systems as well, delivering a highly linear and spacious soundstage with plenty of "air" and detail.
HAL-O III: Herbie's newest, this all-titanium stabilizer improves the performance of the very best vacuum tubes while faithfully preserving the audio system's unique character. Recommended for rectifier tubes and for all extremely hot-running tubes.

Es precisamente es mi previo AR LS 25mk2.
Muchas gracias por la respuesta.
Más comentarios ??

Tengo los de Herbie hace años en las de previo y rectificadoras, el medio/grave me mejoró un poco, eso noté. Con el ultimo cambio de domicilio se me olvidó volverlos a poner, hasta hace unas semanas que una de las válvulas de previo me hacía ruidos y algún chisporroteo durante unos segundos al encenderse, puse los dampers por probar y ya no hay chisporroteo ni ruidos, no sé si seran los dampers o casualidad.

Hola Carlos,

yo tengo unos cuantos anillos de caucho para válvulas de diferentes medidas que no uso. Igual te pueden servir. Te pongo un privado.

Un saludo,

En una tienda de suministros de fontanería,  tienen muchas medidas pero tienen que ser de Viton que soportan altas temperaturas y no se degradan.   Lo digo por comodidad.

Bueno pues hay un compañero del foro q me los vende y ademas de Madrid.
asi que asunto resuelto.
gracias a todos...

Por si a alguien le interesa he puesto a la venta una pareja de HAL-O dampers de Herbie Labs en la sección de varios.

Un saludo.